==========
TOM: "History teaches that the great civilizations crumble from within. America, the shining STAR of all human endeavors, is in mortal danger because irrational mystics took over the universities,molding the minds of [almost] every young adult searching foranswers. I was there, after my military time, in the late-60's:every class was statist rubbish and training grounds for violent,NON-democratic revolt."
==========
I was a Real Estate major to begin with and ended up majoring in Economics (maybe the social science of the business world if even that stretch would be allowed). My last semester I had an academic scholarship which paid my tuition and books. This was the BUSINESS dept. -- no place for irrational mystics at a conservative university (BSU) in an even more conservative state (Idaho). Even if I accept your premise that is was their goal to mold impressionable young minds -- like you, I went to college AFTER my time in the military -- so the military had ample opportunity to shove my skull into THEIR mold first. IF the university mold is the one that prevailed, I can be no less than grateful for that. The university taught me to expand my horizons and that increasing my intellectual capacity comes with increased social responsibility -- the university never once asked me to risk death for THEIR cause.
==========
TOM: "I understand what happened to people like you & "sail", and I sympathize."
==========
So what happened? Share your understanding. Enlighten us oh wise and wonderful war hawk! Were we DUPED in the process of pursuing higher education? Seeking answers and enlightenment; embracing learning and knowledge as a never-ending lifestyle . . . we ended up DUMBER? Does that really make sense to you?
==========
TOM: "But your anti-ideology is wrong, wrong, wrong. You support apres. candidate that has no values...because you have none yourself."
==========
I support NO president OR presidential candidate. They've ALL already sold their souls to the highest bidder and the auction for this particular contest is ongoing. The one able to raise the most money will win. They don't represent us anymore -- they represent the interests of extremely wealthy and powerful business interests -- and if you can't see that, it is YOU that I feel sorry for. They no longer compete for our votes; they compete for dollars -- it's the truest and most consistent way to measure who will win ANY U.S. political contest. And how dare you pass judgment on my values? You are ill-informed and pompous -- shall I adopt YOUR values?
==========
TOM: "You claim to love everyone, and have no concept of whatlove is, certainly have none."
==========
So tell me more about YOUR love. This kind of "love" so genuine and protecting which encourages his children and grandchildren to march themselves into the gears of a military machine which seeks nothing more than to rip them limb from limb? A kind of love which expects them to become landing grates for a military-industrial complex that has grown so powerful and so wealthy that it now can purchase political power and influence and advance IT'S OWN agenda purely for profit? What kind of love is that?
==========
My love seeks to SAVE my children -- and their children -- and their children from this murderous horror that far too many of us have accepted as the price we must pay for freedom. What freedom in a nation with the highest per-capita incarceration rate in the world? What freedom in a nation where white males stand a 1 in 11 chance of being incarcerated in prison for some portion of their lives? What freedom in a nation where 1 in 4 black males will end up in prison for some portion of THEIR lives? Land of the free? Gimme' a break! My love was encouraged -- briefly -- by the promise of America becoming a "kinder, gentler nation." What encourages your love? Missiles and Bombs and BIG Guns?
==========
TOM: "You don't believe in patriotism, and honoring our young people who have volunteered to defend you...because you have no idea of what the value of America is."
==========
The type of nationalism (aka "patriotism") you extol is dangerous. It's volatile and it gets people killed. Moreover, it has NOTHING to do with democracy, the will of the people, or freedom. It has EVERYTHING to do with fascism. The other key ingredient of fascism is absolute intolerance of those with differing opinions. Sound familiar? (Like Bush having protesters removed to a "designated protest area" far removed from his ears and his eyes?)
==========
TOM: "It is SO sad, that the most articulate...are [usually] the mostdeluded....and THAT is the "death-knell" I really fear, for the sakeof my children & grandchildren."
==========
"The most articulate are the most deluded." The smartest are the dumbest. The fastest are the slowest. The richest are the poorest. Do ANY of these statements ring true for you?
==========
The "death-knell" is that our federal government has been taken over by a group (some call it a cult) of 8 or 9 men with an ideologue, a clear ideology and their agenda doesn't give a flip about your personal freedom OR mine. It's about securing our temporary position as the supreme military might of the world and projecting that position as far as possible into the future absolutely REGARDLESS of the cost in dollars or human lives.
==========
Read it and weep -- all 90 pages of it -- at: http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
==========
If the above addy is displayed on more than one line, type it in or copy and paste -- the link won't work if the addy is displayed on more than one line.
==========
sail4free
==========
Sunday, July 25, 2004
Sunday, July 18, 2004
Those Who Yearn to Be Free
==========
My response to Onyxman's post at Capitol Hill Blue -- Military & Veteran's Issues: Baby Killers of Iraq War (a thread prompted by news coverage of a parade where a soldier sporting a "Support Bush" sign was reportedly greeted with "Booo" and "Baby Killer!")
==========
ONYXMAN: "There is certainly a mythology about servicemen returning from Vietnam being spit on and called babykiller."=
=========
I've never personally been called "baby killer" but I was spat on by a high school girl riding a school bus while I walked alongside a road in my Air Force uniform in El Paso, TX in '72. These incidents probably have been exaggerated beyond their proper proportion but they did happen.
==========
ONYXMAN: "I'm not saying such things never happened, but I never heard about such things until long after 1974, and of all the friends I have who served in Vietnam none ever experienced this.
==========
All these years later, it's difficult to remember how extremely unpopular the Vietnam War was by the time it finally ended in '75. The first movies about that war ("Full Metal Jacket" and "Platoon") didn't DARE be released prior to '85/'86 as there would have been no market for them. (Compare that to how quickly we saw movies about Desert Storm -- some of them where even of the "comedy" genre.) The reason you didn't hear anything about it until "long after 1974" is because NOBODY wanted to hear about "it". Many Nam Combat Vets with the most to tell STILL don't talk about "it" -- but their soaring rates of homelessness, failed marriages, addiction, depression and suicide tell a story that most folks STILL don't want to hear -- and they sure as hell don't want to PAY for it!
==========
We have no stomach for the REAL cost of war in this country (all our "enemies" know this) and we've never had the stomach for it. We have had -- and may have again -- forced conscription (the draft) because they can't get enough warm young bodies to feed the meat grinder (military-industrial complex) any other way. Of course, NOW we have a new prison-industrial complex to more effectively deal with those who won't offer themselves as a living sacrifice to the war machine.
==========
We worship the few "heroes" that make it home in one piece but even they know the REAL heroes are rotting in the ground (hopefully) somewhere. And our ever-generous and empathic government grants a 30% disability check to those who have lost "only" one arm or "only" one leg.
==========
So is someone's anti-war comments at a parade "right" or "wrong"? I dunno...the political "right" has so distorted the meaning of that word, I'm reluctant to use it for anything anymore. Others who are far better informed than me from around the world are shaking their heads in dismay at America -- this "deeply troubled nation" I read about in one article. Once we were known as "land of the free" and "home of the brave". With the highest per-capita incarceration rate in the world in a time where comments against the administration are considered un-American or un-patriotic, it's sad those phrases have become so laughable. I'm living in a country which is rapidly losing forever its credibility as a beacon of hope for those who yearn to be free -- here AND abroad.
==========
sail4free
==========
My response to Onyxman's post at Capitol Hill Blue -- Military & Veteran's Issues: Baby Killers of Iraq War (a thread prompted by news coverage of a parade where a soldier sporting a "Support Bush" sign was reportedly greeted with "Booo" and "Baby Killer!")
==========
ONYXMAN: "There is certainly a mythology about servicemen returning from Vietnam being spit on and called babykiller."=
=========
I've never personally been called "baby killer" but I was spat on by a high school girl riding a school bus while I walked alongside a road in my Air Force uniform in El Paso, TX in '72. These incidents probably have been exaggerated beyond their proper proportion but they did happen.
==========
ONYXMAN: "I'm not saying such things never happened, but I never heard about such things until long after 1974, and of all the friends I have who served in Vietnam none ever experienced this.
==========
All these years later, it's difficult to remember how extremely unpopular the Vietnam War was by the time it finally ended in '75. The first movies about that war ("Full Metal Jacket" and "Platoon") didn't DARE be released prior to '85/'86 as there would have been no market for them. (Compare that to how quickly we saw movies about Desert Storm -- some of them where even of the "comedy" genre.) The reason you didn't hear anything about it until "long after 1974" is because NOBODY wanted to hear about "it". Many Nam Combat Vets with the most to tell STILL don't talk about "it" -- but their soaring rates of homelessness, failed marriages, addiction, depression and suicide tell a story that most folks STILL don't want to hear -- and they sure as hell don't want to PAY for it!
==========
We have no stomach for the REAL cost of war in this country (all our "enemies" know this) and we've never had the stomach for it. We have had -- and may have again -- forced conscription (the draft) because they can't get enough warm young bodies to feed the meat grinder (military-industrial complex) any other way. Of course, NOW we have a new prison-industrial complex to more effectively deal with those who won't offer themselves as a living sacrifice to the war machine.
==========
We worship the few "heroes" that make it home in one piece but even they know the REAL heroes are rotting in the ground (hopefully) somewhere. And our ever-generous and empathic government grants a 30% disability check to those who have lost "only" one arm or "only" one leg.
==========
So is someone's anti-war comments at a parade "right" or "wrong"? I dunno...the political "right" has so distorted the meaning of that word, I'm reluctant to use it for anything anymore. Others who are far better informed than me from around the world are shaking their heads in dismay at America -- this "deeply troubled nation" I read about in one article. Once we were known as "land of the free" and "home of the brave". With the highest per-capita incarceration rate in the world in a time where comments against the administration are considered un-American or un-patriotic, it's sad those phrases have become so laughable. I'm living in a country which is rapidly losing forever its credibility as a beacon of hope for those who yearn to be free -- here AND abroad.
==========
sail4free
==========
Bush & Torture, Inc.
==========
Thanks for that list of links. Having read a few, these are excerpts which leaped off the page for me. Looking forward to a time when Bush & Co. will be tried for THEIR war crimes, perhaps we can use some of these techniques they condone to get the truth from them? Anyone with any experience in the "reality of war" will tell you that information a captured soldier might know that has ANY intelligence value must be "sought out" in the first 24 to 48 hours. After that, whatever he knows is old news and of no value. This reality is made even more obvious by the de-centralized structure of our latest "enemy." Group leaders typically might know one other group leader and who the two of them take orders from and that is IT. Members of the small groups know even less. None of them have any knowledge of the bigger picture or long-range tactics and they are purposely DENIED that information -- for their own "protection" and to protect the mission. You can torture a man to death but he can't tell you what he doesn't know. Therefore, to torture and interrogate a captive beyond those first 48 hours is a senseless and cruel act -- debasing the tortured AND the torturer. I hold every soldier PERSONALLY responsible for everything he/she does. They have a moral obligation to resist and stand against what they know in their heart of hearts to be wrong. Better to risk a few years in the brig with integrity and morality intact than spend the rest of your own tortured life suffering the consequences of "just following orders."
==========
Do we not believe that every single human who has suffered at our hand will not exact his own personal and terrifying revenge? Will they not be motivated all the more to reek their bloody revenge against this nation which has condoned these heinous acts? (I know those would be my thoughts, "Do whatever it takes to stay alive and make these fuckers pay nine times over for what they have done to me and my friends and family.") We are planting the seeds of our own destruction. What happened to "land of the free" and "home of the brave?" There are no words to describe the depth of loathing and contempt I feel for those who support this administration and their criminal acts. The only difference between our nation's treasonous and illegal acts and those of the playground bully is SCOPE -- the intellectual depravity and the insecurity which motivates such behavior are one and the same. Woody speaks the truth when he says, "This government was founded by, of, and for the people but everybody feels it like a giant open sore -- they don't represent us anymore."
==========
sail4free -- survivor of advanced POW training at Fairchild AFB in Spokane, WA in 1972/Vietnamese Linguist for USAFSS from '71 to '75.
==========
The Bush administration has shamed us all, reducing us to the level of those governments that also have wonderful laws forbidding torture, but condone it anyway.
==========
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29858-2004Jun9.html
==========
Legal and constitutional experts have expressed astonishment at the judgments made by administration lawyers on interrogation techniques. In one memo, written in January 2002, Mr. Gonzalez told President Bush that the nature of the war on terror "renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions".
==========
A separate memo, written by Pentagon lawyers in March 2003, stated that "the infliction of pain or suffering per se, whether it is physical or mental is insufficient to amount to torture. [The pain] must be of such a high level of intensity that it is difficult for the subject to endure".
==========
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtmlxml=/news/2004/06/13/wguan13.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/06/13/ixworld.html
==========
"I accept the legal conclusion of the attorney general and the Department of Justice that I have the authority under the Constitution to suspend Geneva as between the United States and Afghanistan, but I decline to exercise that authority at this time," the president said in the memo, entitled "Humane Treatment of al-Qaida and Taliban Detainees."
==========
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040622/D83CC3P80.html
==========
sail4free
==========
Thanks for that list of links. Having read a few, these are excerpts which leaped off the page for me. Looking forward to a time when Bush & Co. will be tried for THEIR war crimes, perhaps we can use some of these techniques they condone to get the truth from them? Anyone with any experience in the "reality of war" will tell you that information a captured soldier might know that has ANY intelligence value must be "sought out" in the first 24 to 48 hours. After that, whatever he knows is old news and of no value. This reality is made even more obvious by the de-centralized structure of our latest "enemy." Group leaders typically might know one other group leader and who the two of them take orders from and that is IT. Members of the small groups know even less. None of them have any knowledge of the bigger picture or long-range tactics and they are purposely DENIED that information -- for their own "protection" and to protect the mission. You can torture a man to death but he can't tell you what he doesn't know. Therefore, to torture and interrogate a captive beyond those first 48 hours is a senseless and cruel act -- debasing the tortured AND the torturer. I hold every soldier PERSONALLY responsible for everything he/she does. They have a moral obligation to resist and stand against what they know in their heart of hearts to be wrong. Better to risk a few years in the brig with integrity and morality intact than spend the rest of your own tortured life suffering the consequences of "just following orders."
==========
Do we not believe that every single human who has suffered at our hand will not exact his own personal and terrifying revenge? Will they not be motivated all the more to reek their bloody revenge against this nation which has condoned these heinous acts? (I know those would be my thoughts, "Do whatever it takes to stay alive and make these fuckers pay nine times over for what they have done to me and my friends and family.") We are planting the seeds of our own destruction. What happened to "land of the free" and "home of the brave?" There are no words to describe the depth of loathing and contempt I feel for those who support this administration and their criminal acts. The only difference between our nation's treasonous and illegal acts and those of the playground bully is SCOPE -- the intellectual depravity and the insecurity which motivates such behavior are one and the same. Woody speaks the truth when he says, "This government was founded by, of, and for the people but everybody feels it like a giant open sore -- they don't represent us anymore."
==========
sail4free -- survivor of advanced POW training at Fairchild AFB in Spokane, WA in 1972/Vietnamese Linguist for USAFSS from '71 to '75.
==========
The Bush administration has shamed us all, reducing us to the level of those governments that also have wonderful laws forbidding torture, but condone it anyway.
==========
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29858-2004Jun9.html
==========
Legal and constitutional experts have expressed astonishment at the judgments made by administration lawyers on interrogation techniques. In one memo, written in January 2002, Mr. Gonzalez told President Bush that the nature of the war on terror "renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions".
==========
A separate memo, written by Pentagon lawyers in March 2003, stated that "the infliction of pain or suffering per se, whether it is physical or mental is insufficient to amount to torture. [The pain] must be of such a high level of intensity that it is difficult for the subject to endure".
==========
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtmlxml=/news/2004/06/13/wguan13.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/06/13/ixworld.html
==========
"I accept the legal conclusion of the attorney general and the Department of Justice that I have the authority under the Constitution to suspend Geneva as between the United States and Afghanistan, but I decline to exercise that authority at this time," the president said in the memo, entitled "Humane Treatment of al-Qaida and Taliban Detainees."
==========
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040622/D83CC3P80.html
==========
sail4free
==========
Friday, July 16, 2004
Thoughts From Within
==========
Thanks a BUNCH for that link -- here are the words for anyone not able to view it:
==========
THOUGHTS FROM WITHIN
==========
I sometimes feel like an alien creature for which there is no earthly explanation
Sure I have human form -- walking erect and opposing digits,
but my mind is upside down.
I feel like a run-on sentence in a punctuation crazy world.
and I see the world around me like a mad collective dream.
==========
An endless stream of people move like ants from the freeway
cell phones, pc's, and digital displays
"In Money We Trust,"we'll find happiness
the prevailing attitude;
like a genetically modified irradiated Big Mac is somehow symbolic of food.
==========
Morality is legislated
prisons over-populated
religion is incorporated
the profit-motive has permeated all activity
we pay our government to let us park on the street
And war is the biggest money-maker of all
we all know missile envy only comes from being small.
==========
Politicians and prostitutes are comfortable together
I wonder if they talk about the strange change in the weather.
This government was founded by, of, and for the people
but everybody feels it like a giant open sore
they don't represent us anymore
And blaming the President for the country's woes
is like yelling at a puppet for the way it sings
Who's the man behind the curtain pulling the strings?
==========
A billion people sitting watching their TV
in the room that they call living
but as for me
I see living as loving
and since there is no loving room
I sit on the grass under a tree
dreaming of the way things used to be
Pre-Industrial Revolution
which of course is before the rivers and oceans, and skies were polluted
==========
before Parkinson's, and mad cows
and all the convoluted cacophony of bad ideas
like skyscrapers, and tree paper, and earth rapers
like Monsanto and Dupont had their way
as they continue to today.
==========
This was Pre-us
back when the buffalo roamed
and the Indian's home
was the forest, and God was nature
and heaven was here and now
Can you imagine clean water, food, and air
living in community with animals and people who care?
==========
Do you dare to feel responsible for every dollar you lay down
are you going to make the rich man richer
or are you going to stand your ground
You say you want a revolution
a communal evolution
to be a part of the solution
maybe I'll be seeing you around.
==========
Hear Woody speak out at:
http://www.voiceyourself.com/03_thoughtsfromwithin/03_poem.php
==========
Thanks a BUNCH for that link -- here are the words for anyone not able to view it:
==========
THOUGHTS FROM WITHIN
==========
I sometimes feel like an alien creature for which there is no earthly explanation
Sure I have human form -- walking erect and opposing digits,
but my mind is upside down.
I feel like a run-on sentence in a punctuation crazy world.
and I see the world around me like a mad collective dream.
==========
An endless stream of people move like ants from the freeway
cell phones, pc's, and digital displays
"In Money We Trust,"we'll find happiness
the prevailing attitude;
like a genetically modified irradiated Big Mac is somehow symbolic of food.
==========
Morality is legislated
prisons over-populated
religion is incorporated
the profit-motive has permeated all activity
we pay our government to let us park on the street
And war is the biggest money-maker of all
we all know missile envy only comes from being small.
==========
Politicians and prostitutes are comfortable together
I wonder if they talk about the strange change in the weather.
This government was founded by, of, and for the people
but everybody feels it like a giant open sore
they don't represent us anymore
And blaming the President for the country's woes
is like yelling at a puppet for the way it sings
Who's the man behind the curtain pulling the strings?
==========
A billion people sitting watching their TV
in the room that they call living
but as for me
I see living as loving
and since there is no loving room
I sit on the grass under a tree
dreaming of the way things used to be
Pre-Industrial Revolution
which of course is before the rivers and oceans, and skies were polluted
==========
before Parkinson's, and mad cows
and all the convoluted cacophony of bad ideas
like skyscrapers, and tree paper, and earth rapers
like Monsanto and Dupont had their way
as they continue to today.
==========
This was Pre-us
back when the buffalo roamed
and the Indian's home
was the forest, and God was nature
and heaven was here and now
Can you imagine clean water, food, and air
living in community with animals and people who care?
==========
Do you dare to feel responsible for every dollar you lay down
are you going to make the rich man richer
or are you going to stand your ground
You say you want a revolution
a communal evolution
to be a part of the solution
maybe I'll be seeing you around.
==========
Hear Woody speak out at:
http://www.voiceyourself.com/03_thoughtsfromwithin/03_poem.php
==========
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